thinking.  Feeding the Fire and thinking.  This morning, and now, at the end of this day.  Shame.

The Dog Cloth.  Wendy's kids.  What i have in common with them.  How i think of Shame,  what it Means to me, even though i am "old" now and they are so Young.  How i was young.

The words came:  "of course.   You are a shameless heathen."   as a child.

How shame is such a Tool of our culture.  Christianity.

Being brought up in the Baptist born again culture.  How the sermon on Sunday morning would be to "educate and instruct" but on Sunday evening,  different.  How the second to the last song from the hymnal would be T he Old Rugged Cross.   "On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,  the emblem of suffering and shame…."  This singing was so we could become sufficiently miserable for the final call to the altar,  singing Just As I am,  the preacher beseeching us to come forward and give ourselves to Jesus.  How i was,  so early in my life,  very silently repusled by all of this.  How False it all seemed.  How ugly, really.

I was a shameless heathen.  And since my mother had told me that the age of SEVEN is the age of accountability,  and without having been told this yet…about accountability,  i was startled to hear her tell me that the only unforgivable sin was to doubt the existence of God…and it was startling, because i already HAD.  Doubted.  so i found out too late and it was unforgivable…so…..

this morning i am thinking about how i felt then,  hearing this,  knowing my own EXPERIENCE….which was to Doubt.   and i am thinking about it all,  having a mother who i cannot remember one single image of Loving from….none of this i'm writing here is New,  it's old stuff,  but i cannot remember a single experience of my mother loving me,  being happy about me,  wanting anything for me other than to be saved from burning in hell

What chance does a kid have?  To find their way of Just Going?,  in this milieu? (sp)  What chance?

But SOMEHOW,  in some odd way,  these things rolled off me.  Similar to Tay.  is it that because of experience,  there is something that is really PRE Shame?  That positions one to be almost immune to shame?…to notice it,  but not be crushed by it?  A kind of Pre Shame?….where even at such a very young age,  you feel so isolated by where you find yourself living that it  somehow doesn't really HURT?

I had the creek.  The woods.  This is where i Lived.  This was my world.  I would escape from that place where those people were,  my mother, my father,  the church people were.   I would go down the back hill to the creek.  When i Had to be UP there with them,  i would go to those National Geographics in the attic and i would look to the point of mindlessness at the pictures of peoples that were "heathen".  They were so Beauty FULL to me.  Their dioramas.  They made so much sense and i knew myself to be Of Them,  somehow mistakendly finding myself where i was…

But down at the creek.  This was my Home.  And i was loved there,  by that creek,  the forest there.

so.

i think about how we are a culture of Shaming.  For the most prominent example,  how the Mayor of New York is being Shamed by police officers turning their backs to him.  Shame is alive and Well in our culture,  in our country.  It is an excellent tool of Control.  We are all so vulnerable to shame.

 So…i will keep thinking about this.  But in this Next Year,  this New Year,  maybe i will think about creating some new personal mythology that can be Anything At All.  Just Anything At All.  and i will also create one  pinch pot.

 

 

 

 

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40 responses to “just a little more about Shame and then we can move on”

  1. tracy Avatar
    tracy

    I think it might be possible to move past shame. Not if you do something shameful, but that shame that people lay on you. Shame because you aren’t like them. Maybe it’s different when you’re older and more comfortable with yourself. They can’t trick you into thinking there’s something horribly wrong with you when you know there isn’t. I relate to your childhood self. You have to transcend it all and just go.

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  2. grace Avatar

    it’s a BIG and INTERESTING thing to look at.
    Shame because you aren’t like them. Not because of doing something
    that would elicit shame for real. I don’t think i have ever done
    something that would elicit legitimate Shame.
    but it’s how it goes with shame. It’s like a Vapor. it goes where it really isn’t supposed to be. Kinda hovers. and makes you really LOOK and ask questions. That’s why it’s so Powerfull. and how it can be USED.
    I haven’t transcended it. No. BUT i am determined to Just Go

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  3. Jan Avatar
    Jan

    I would say that as a child you had a very good instinct for the truth. could find where it was. . .the creek and the woods. I think we have all done that somehow. . .those who gather here. . . . .and yet I am still taken by surprise when someone tries to shame me as an adult. the need to find or create my own tools to deal with that. . .work through it creatively (after feeling the gut punch of it, of course).

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  4. Saskia Van Herwaarden Avatar

    how strange our mothers did/could not express their love for us, for it must have been there; I see they were probably hurt themselves.
    funny how we both had worlds of our own to retreat to

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  5. Marti Avatar
    Marti

    Always when I read of the mother/daughter relationship, in my head I think of words that Clarissa Pinkola wrote, her description of the many types of mothering, her notion of the Scar clan. I’m not going to go in depth into any of these definitions except to say that Saskia touches on something that Estes points out:
    “what shall we say about the woman who truly has had an experience of destructive mothering in her own childhood? Of course that time cannot be erased but it can be eased. It cannot be sweetened up but it can be rebuilt, strongly and properly now. It is not the rebuilding of the essential mother that is is so frightening to so many but rather the fear that something essential died back then, something that can never be brought back to life, something that received no nourishment for physically, one’s own mother was dead herself. For you I say, be at peace, you are not dead, your are not lethally wounded.” pg. 180
    Here I split with Estes because while you may not be lethally wounded, peace is hard to come by and even though you can find, even at a very young age, a great strength of character and resilience as you did grace,you carry that scar always. Estes does say this however,
    “As in nature, the soul and the spirit have resources that are astonishing. Like wolves, and other creatures, the soul and spirit are able to thrive on very little, and sometimes for a long time on nothing. To me, this is a miracle ”
    Physical scars may fade over time, soul scars stay hidden until something triggers their raw aching and what is the miracle to me is to see a woman who found her family in a creek, in the forests but as she continued with her life, opened her arms wide, expanded her heart to include loving all living things, nurturing, nourishing and so it continues here in this cyber place as it continues each day on her land and both are real examples of living a life of meaning and caring…
    I’m giving Estes the last word here: pg. 181
    “Tell the truth about your wound, and you will get a truthful picture of the remedy to apply to it. Don’t pack whatever is easiest or most available into the emptiness. Hold out for the right medicine. You will recognize it because it makes your life stronger rather than weaker.”

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  6. Tina Avatar
    Tina

    Comfort found in nature……Giving unconditional nourishment to the mind..the body…the spirit. Giving comfort to young and old. Deep wounds never totally heal…..only scabs that thicken with time. Scabs no matter the thickness….pressured….spilt and bleed every now and again.

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  7. beth Avatar

    Oh Grace. So close to the bone here. The release from dogma. My brother sent me this article a few years ago. It is kind of long but we found much there to relate to. http://www.empoweringpeople.net/shame/shame.pdf

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  8. Jan Avatar
    Jan

    sitting here, with these words, I feel comforted and mothered. on hard days I imagine what it would have been like originally. . .as consciousness was beginning. because our original state was to know the trees and the rivers and all creatures as family. . .as part of us. and as we came to realization of ourselves through time. . .understood that we were protective of our own offspring. . .that we were in relationship that way. . .we still knew how to look after each other. as mates, partners in life. . .we were everything to each other and didn’t know any separation or lack. . .of nurture or anything else.
    and I wish to not set up a lament for how things were because deep in my bones I feel we are moving back into that. and that the scars will soften and release as we sink into this realization.

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  9. Dana Avatar

    Thanks for the link Beth. Lots of food for thought.
    As an aside, has anybody noticed how much shorter and less interesting Atlantic articles are now? I have subscribed for years and am wondering if I want to continue.

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  10. jude Avatar

    I hope this comes out right. I seem to fall over my words lately. Shaming is everywhere.
    I think any strong belief system, as hard as it is to admit, shames the ones who don’t get it, can’t get it. It is everywhere. Building a belief system can be a wall. It shuts folks out. If I look at that closely, by examining myself, I can only see acceptance and forgiveness as a way to stop the pattern.

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  11. debbie.weaver Avatar

    I find it hard to understand mothers that do not show love to their children and also to feel shamed but religion was not part of our family. We were sent to church Protestant and Methodist and given the choice of whether we chose to believe or not. We al chose not but religion I think is not considered a strong part of our culture as it is in the States.
    I feel for all children and adults who do come from loving and close families.

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  12. Mo Crow Avatar

    (((Grace))) it’s in that place where there is no going back that transformation through the creative act can save our lives, Terri Windling wrote about it beautifully back in 2002, here’s a link to “Transformations II”-
    http://endicottstudio.typepad.com/articleslist/transformations-ii-by-terri-windling.html
    and from her post in 2012 “Why One Writes”
    http://windling.typepad.com/blog/2012/06/why-one-writes.html
    “”Why one writes is a question I can answer easily, having so often asked it of myself. I believe one writes because one has to create a world in which one can live. I could not live in any of the worlds offered to me — the world of my parents, the world of war, the world of politics. I had to create a world of my own, like a climate, a country, an atmosphere in which I could breathe, reign, and recreate myself when destroyed by living. That, I believe, is the reason for every work of art.”
    – Anais Nin
    your words, art and photography here at Windthread help me understand the ways of the world (even now, after all these years it’s still tricky) and know that there are kindred souls in the world

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  13. Dana Avatar

    I’ve been thinking a lot about this and it seems to me that shame is an almost instinctive method of socialization and control in groups…(Not just humans, either; with horses alpha mares use shunning to control others in their herds.) It speaks to the tension between the group and the individual, which is something we are all always trying to work out for ourselves and our society. Most of us know the feeling of having to hide parts of ourselves to be accepted by the group. Since only a few of us are willing to live truly alone being a unique individual by definition means that there is always some difference that might produce shame. Awareness of this paradox, especially by parents (so hard sometimes) seems like the best way to steer between the needs of the individual and the demands of the group. This all sounds objective, but I’m no stranger to the searing mortification that stunts self-acceptance and exploration. Scars indeed. The costs exacted by our group membership can be very high. We each have the task of deciding how much we can pay.

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  14. Julie Avatar

    Oh my god, Marti, I have been waiting for something, some kind of trail marker and here, on the last hours of the year, you bring it to me. This last paragraph. Not a trail marker, but a life preserver. Thank you.

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  15. handstories Avatar

    I had my room, my books, myself. yesterday-talked with a friend about the feeling of being emotionally raped, the shame that comes from it. there are so many thoughts, feelings & memories that your posts touch. I am always so grateful for how you are able to find words for it & to put it all out there- raw and true. x

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  16. Liz Avatar

    I am here, wordless … wishing so many things could be otherwise

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  17. Deb G Avatar

    I read this first this morning and have been thinking on and off. Thinking about Brene Brown’s writing on shame and vulnerability. All I can say right now is that I’ll be making a pinch pot too.

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  18. grace Avatar

    i think, maybe i have finally found my GROUND. I don’t think
    i could be knocked by shame or anything like it anymore. But it’s
    taken 69 years. Too many years still vulnerable. But now, i
    have some serious stuff to attend to and Shame isn’t one of them.

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  19. grace Avatar

    people have different needs. I don’t know anything about anyone
    but my Self, and my own experience, really, but i don’t think my
    own mother needed to love me. That wasn’t the Work she was here for.
    I don’t know her Work. Can’t know it. All i can know is my own.
    and yes. we were oh so graciously Given
    worlds
    to retreat to
    to Receive us, As Is

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  20. grace Avatar

    yes. i knew nothing died. that i would need to mother myself.
    Rebuild.

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  21. grace Avatar

    i think the bleeding now and then is not bad. It continues to
    Teach what we need to know to live in Our Time of the Earth

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  22. grace Avatar

    i have printed this out and will read it tomorrow, New Year’s Day.
    Thank you, Beth for sending it

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  23. grace Avatar

    true and interesting…why?

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  24. grace Avatar

    “the scars will soften and release as we sink in…”
    I see this as Truth.

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  25. grace Avatar

    “shames the ones who don’t get it”…this is very BIG.
    i am thinking about this. Your thoughts are very real

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  26. grace Avatar

    it’s good then. to know more. even if your own world was not like
    this

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  27. grace Avatar

    i will spend time here, on New Year’s Day tomorrow.
    Thank you and LOVE

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  28. grace Avatar

    OK.
    i need to sit with all this tomorrow.
    Need to sit with this.
    THANK you…
    this is great. really really great.

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  29. grace Avatar

    raw and true. it’s how life is.
    and x to YOU!!!!!!, dear You

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  30. grace Avatar

    eeeee…so good. you too. a pinch pot. o and eeeee…love that

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  31. Michelle in NYC Avatar

    I read this early, then again later, and wanted to speak to the issue, but found, I simply had too much to say. Be assured it’s not from shame my silence, but from the economy of energy I simply have to acknowledge. It’s a big brave and necessary issue to bring up as the year ends, and good. Good you did.

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  32. grace Avatar

    wordless is a good way to be when it feels good

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  33. grace Avatar

    it is just what is here….and i need to look.
    i completely understand the economy of energy. very much.
    LOVE

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  34. debbie.weaver Avatar

    That was supposed to be who do not come from loving and close families. Sorry.
    I worried after whether my comment was inappropriate anyway.

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  35. Minka Avatar
    Minka

    I’ve been wrestling with my shame. Somehow I’ve shaken lose from a good deal of it. Quiet internal work. Silently. Behind the scenes. Not sure how so it feels like magic. And the universe has opened its arms. Not sure if it’s a brief reprieve or a new phase.
    Thank you fir this posting and the discussion here.

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  36. grace Avatar

    ok. this is just a first response to this, there will be more as
    i set the thoughts on the table and watch them a while.
    you are very right i think about shame, shunning, being an effective
    Tool in group dynamics. yes, about the shunning in horses…i
    watch that with the Goats. Most prominent in the Doe goats.
    and yes. acceptance by the larger Group, comes with the price
    of admission….Until maybe, there is something Strong Enough
    Within Us that can present ourselves As Is and grounded in Compassion for our own self and for the Whole
    and just Stand.
    the words that remain somewhat mysterious still to me are
    “Since only a few of us are willing to live truly alone being a unique individual by definition means that there is always some difference that might produce shame.”
    i am looking at this. Reading it again and again. continuing…
    “the costs exacted by our group membership can be very high. We each have the task of deciding how much we
    can
    pay.”
    OR. we each can look at the group and wonder why the cost is so
    high? We each can look at the group and decide that membership
    in such a costly sorority might be against our instinctive nature. May be against our wild self.
    More Thinking.

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  37. grace Avatar

    i think it is really, developmental work. Unless we were
    very lucky, we all have experienced a wound. We all have
    interpreted that wounding to be shaming. I think we work.
    Work long and well to come to a place of compassion for ourselves.
    I know that my own wounding as a child was subsequently played
    out in different “plays” through a life time and that the character
    i assumed in the story lines changed to offer such an incredible
    variety of variations on a Theme. But the desire to keep close
    to the True self, in Pinkola Estes thinking the wild self, the
    instinctive self, the intuitive self, the soul self
    has been strong.
    So it is a Just Going thing. but Just Going with as much
    conscious awareness as can be and Attention.
    and then for me, Compassion and the JOY of the Learning

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  38. grace Avatar

    yes. i understood that. and oh, NO, not inappropriate at all.
    To me, your experience has so much to TELL….to OFFER.
    i sat there the other day and let myself wonder, let myself really
    LOOK, search for, in my old woman sense of things …..
    What would it be LIKE????? to be MotherLoved???? To have been
    embraced by a mother’s arms in a hug that was warm and holding?
    to have heard in a mother’s words that she found happiness and
    pride in me?
    so, to me, it is valuable to hear this, because i didn’t. What
    strength did it give you for life’s work? How does it sustain
    and support you now?
    AND
    i find it interesting that you say that religion is not a strong
    part of your culture as it is in the US. This is extremely
    interesting to me. Because religion is such a tool of DIVIDE
    here, although the premise of this Nation is that it is Inclusive, we move more and more to Divide.
    Thank you for these thoughts and LOVE to you

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  39. debbie.weaver Avatar

    I still have a very close relationship with my Mum, she lives just round the corner now so that I can keep an eye on her, now we help and sustain each other, I can start giving back what she gave to me so the main benefit is having a close, and so far a long sustaining relationship. Its not all roses she can be very hard and say unkind things, and at the moment she is not happy, but I know behind all of that there is love.
    You seem a very loving person, passing on what you missed to another generation and to your animals and in your work and to all of us out here in the blogospere.

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  40. grace Avatar

    Debbie…that’s just it…behind the things that rise up because
    of discomfort or fear, behind that and beneath that…the Ground
    of it is Love. So that is the ground we walk on with each other.
    Love Ground. No matter that things in any day are ify, the
    Ground is love.
    I tried to find that with my mother, but it wasn’t there. And
    really, i guess she didn’t need it.
    So, i am warmed and sustained to know of you and your mother
    who Just Go as best you can from day to day and have that Love
    under you…
    THANK YOU

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